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Thread: What killed Voyager for me

  1. #1
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    Post What killed Voyager for me

    I know this is practically inviting a flame war, but I believe I have achieved some emotional distance here. I, who was once dubbed "King of the Nitpickers" for criticizing some references to direction that did not match the effects shots, have semi-retired from nitpicking. I would say I have fully retired from Voyager-bashing, but I feel that "bashing" implies that I manufacture complaints. I believe I never have. However, I feel that I did complain about many things that were entirely equal to thinks I basicly let slide in regard to other Trek shows. I used to say that each incident may not be awful, but the pattern was. I have discovered that I was more right than I knew.
    What bothered me about Voyager was not the presence of errors, not the calibur, nor even the frequency. What bothered me about Voyager was how easilly fixable they each seemed, and even that wasn't really it. What it was, really, was that it seemed that no one was trying to correct or avoid those errors.
    See, no matter how hard you try, some mistakes are going to slip through. Some of them will be suprisingly obvious to others ("Is that gladiator wearing a wristwatch?"), and some of them will only be obvious to the guy who was supposed to prevent them ("I forgot to change the number on that door."). They will happen. The important thing isn't really the perfection of the job, it's the effort. It's important that someone cares enough about the finished product that they try to make it perfect. It's important that someone cares enough about the consumers that they try to make the product perfect for them, so they will enjoy it more. It's important that someone cares.
    Over my years of watching Voyager, I got the distinct impression that no one with the power to make changes there cares. They care if we tune in week after week, and they care if we buy Coke because of it (a little), but they don't actually care if we liked the show, or if we enjoyed watching it, so long as we tune in next week.
    That's fine, really. I mean, TV is a business, and the ends of the business are served if the viewers tune in and no one really cares why they tune in as long as whether or not they will tune in next week is, in some way, predictable.
    But, I think, for it to be truly worthy of being Star Trek, of being the show with a muti-million dollar industry based upon devoted fans buying books and toys and memoriabilia, and keeping the actors wealthy just for appearing at a few conventions a year, where adoring fans fight for the chance to sit in a crowded, poorly ventilated hall just to listen to them talk about whatever topics they choose, ...... Someone making the show is supposed to care.



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  2. #2
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    Hate to sound like a broken record, but I blame B&B. They are on record as having said they really don't care about that aspect of the show. If a few glaring mistakes slip by..."who cares! Nobody will notice! That's they way those two do things. All they care about is the $$$$$$$$$$ that the show will bring in.

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  3. #3
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    Flame

    Yeh Voyager did let alot of slip ups through the door, didn't they.

    But still it was a good series in the end

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    SIRSIG
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  4. #4

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    What killed Star Trek: Voyager.

    Two words: Fair Haven (UGHH!).

    Man, I wish I had been in on Tuesday night then I wouldn't have taped this festering pile of s**t before the absolutely top Seven Days (the show with Justina Vail in it who is way, way better looking than Jeri bloody Ryan) and wouldn't have wasted 45 minutes of tape as well.

    Whoever decided to do a episode about Kathryn bloody Janeway getting some sweet holographic loving deserves to be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes.

    Please tell me they don't trod in that particular pile of s**t again. Please.

    And to think after the all-time best episode of Voyager (yet) was on last week, the inspired Pathfinder.

    On a connected subject, how come Deana Troi was written better in Voyager than she has been since "Face of the Enemy" in TNG the better part of a decade ago.

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  5. #5

    Wink

    I have some bad news for you Lone Wolf...


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    DanG.

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  6. #6

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    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    They're doing another bloody Fair Haven episode.

    (commences smacking forehead off computer monitor).

    Okay, I've calmed down now. Can anyone tell me the name of the next Fair Haven debackle, sorry, episode so I know when to save 45 minutes on my tape.

    I don't think I can take much more of this s**t.

    ------------------
    Kid Mama-san, what do they call that thing they shoot the cats out of?
    Mama-san I'm not sure, but I think they call it a catapult.
    Kid Boy, I'm glad I didn't have to say that line...

    Samurai Pizza Cats

  7. #7

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    Its called Spirit Folk and its just a couple more episodes down the line...

    Check the episode listings on http://www.startrek.com for when it will be on, the BBC are putting them onscrenn in order, so barring any great sporting events, it will be that many weeks til the episode...



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    DanG.

    "Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."

    http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

  8. #8
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    What killed Voyager wasn't just sloppy writing. It was the loss of its inital direction that made me hate the series.

    Lets look at the premise - a smaller starfleet vessel is in the middle of nowwhere. A backwater but dangerous sector - a deadly place without relpicators but with plenty of crude disruptors and phasors.

    Voyager not only has to deal with power shortages and spare parts but a devided crew - partly Starfleet and partly Maquis. All having to get along on a 70 year trip home...

    When I heard that I was looking so forward to the series. I was sure this was going to be the best series since TOS. Yes, they are doing the old exploration gig again but doing it in a very, very intersting (and original) manner.

    Then it all collapsed...soon the writers ignored the internal friction, the power shortages, and the lack of spare parts (as the daily exploding shuttle/delta flyer proved). The Delta Quadrent soon became much like the Alpha Quadrent with holograms and transporters and advanced technology. In short everything that I thought was original about the series was ditched for standard TOS/TNG formulae.

    Thats when I lost interst. The sloppy writing was just icing on the cake. They took a series with so much promise and lost it. Even the ending left many people shaking their heads in disgust.

    Its a warning to Enterprise producers and all those who make trek that a wonderful premise may exist but it takes work to take that premise and make a good series.

    [This message has been edited by prophetsteve (edited 08-02-2001).]

  9. #9
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    Voyager suffered from unfinished and inconsistent concepts as well as poor writing. If Berman & Braga wish to disassociate themselves from that element of production, that's all well and good - but who, then, does the work of ensuring consistency and clarity fall to?

    The interviews in the last two issues of ST:Magazine underscored this even more ... strong concepts were never executed, and key players are quick to disavow that a less-than-successful theme was their brainchild.

    But an even deeper malaise lay within Voyager's storytelling style. Often, plots were overly-complicated and then resolved with a magic fix that left other questions unanswered. Instead of simple, direct adventure, it felt like Berman, Braga, et al were playing 'can you top this?' - with themselves as well as with the other work of record (TOS/TNG/DS9).

    Certainly, you want to break new ground. You want new dilemmas and new challenges against which to pit Voyager and her crew. At the same time, the vision of Star Trek has been clearly defined, limiting the avenues of response - while the characters can allude to less ethical solutions, the story ultimately must reinforce the values of the Federation/Starfleet. Move too far off this mark, and while you may have an exciting drama or thrilling adventure, it may not truly be Star Trek in anything other than its outward forms.

    When Roddenberry conceived Star Trek, it was a hard sell. Even NBC pointed to the numbers and set out to cancel the show. The 70's and 80's brought other SF series to the air, all trying to capture that same audience ... but never succeeding against the harsh master that is the Nielsen Ratings.

    Roddenberry created something unique and vital, something that resonated with many of us. It spoke of who we are, and who we aspire to be. It spoke of dreams and possibilities, and of proud achievement, but also of growth and the need to strive for high ideals.

    To borrow a line from 'The Matrix' ...

    "Sooner or later, you'll come to realize, as I have, that there's a difference between knowing the path ... and walking the path."

    Bob

  10. #10
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    SLoppy writing, sloppy editing, bad acting.

    SFXs are great, but I need a bit more to keep me tuned in.

    Though Sir SIG is definitely a mapping god, I gotsta disagree wi'd ya: Voyager blew.

  11. #11
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    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by qerlin:
    Though Sir SIG is definitely a mapping god, I gotsta disagree wi'd ya: Voyager blew.</font>
    Why thank you, I think

    I liked it simply because it was another Trek series. And in my mind any Trek is still good Trek...well not the best Trek but...

    *Activates Thermal Deflectors for the coming Flame War*




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    SIRSIG
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    AKA: The MapMaker
    AKA: The Trek Cartographer
    AKA:...Well I could keep going forever

  12. #12
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    Holograms to releve Pon Farr? I thought the whole point was that the female's psionic link brought stability to the male? How the hell can a hologram do that? They reduced one of the neato parts of Vulcanisim to a cheap and tawdry thing. Sigh...

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  13. #13
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    Always wondered why they didn't have more Vulcans on borad. Particularly when you see one.

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  14. #14
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    Voyager was not great but it was good! It spread the Star Trek genre. It kept Star Trek alive. Some of it was good, some of it was not IMHO. This spread to Enterprise and this would not have come about if there was not an intrest in Voyager. give Enterprise a chance!!!

  15. #15
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    It was good at times. My point was it could have been so much better if they had stuck to their original concepts. In the end it was just mundane Trek.

    As for spreading Trek? TNG spread Trek (at one time everyone was clamoring for a guest-appearance on the show). DS9 did so on a smaller scale as I am seeing that the Dominion War arc brought quite a few people back.

    Voyager? I really have no comment - my sentiments of above really sum it up for me. It was nothing special, save for a few interesting episodes. TNG and DS9 made me care about the characters and their plight. I didn't even care if Voyager got home...

    As for interest in Voyager helping bring about Enterprise - Berman has said it was Paramount who pushed for a new series. I think they fear that without Trek on the airwaves they will loose interest and merchandising would perish.

    With Enterprise I find myself between two positions - the fanboy in me that _wants_ to like everything that Trek puts out and the sceptic that nitpicks to death everything Trek puts out. I hate both sides but I find myself placed in the later role.

    I will give Enterprise a chance KlingonZ; I'll even try to be less critical of the continuity errors (if they exist). But Enterprise will have to be far better than Voyager was (as a whole) to earn my respect and my viewership.

    [This message has been edited by prophetsteve (edited 08-03-2001).]

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